Episode Transcript
SPEAKER_00 (00:00:00 - 00:00:16): Hi, my name's Sarah, your name's James.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00:16 - 00:00:19): And what do you do for a living?
SPEAKER_01 (00:00:19 - 00:00:32): Oh boy, okay, so my name is James and I, what do I do? I do DevOps, but really just, I program, I like technology, I like computers, just anything in there.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00:32 - 00:00:35): What's the most interesting project you've ever done?
SPEAKER_01 (00:00:35 - 00:00:51): Ever done, geez. You would have to be personal projects because I've done so many things at work, but yeah, the most interesting thing is that things are just, I've always wanted to be an inventor, like create things, and when I was little I always wanted to see something like, oh, I could make that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00:51 - 00:01:07): And of course I couldn't, but I would try. So things where I get to do that, like I made, I made like, I got into 3D printing, CAD modeling, and made like intricate little mechanisms, and that was very gratifying.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01:08 - 00:01:09): When did you start doing 3D printing?
SPEAKER_01 (00:01:10 - 00:01:21): I don't even know, probably like a few years ago. I kind of, I was really excited, I got one, you know, and it's so cool, I'm going to do so much with it, and then I sat there and realized, I don't know what I'm going to do with this thing.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01:21 - 00:01:37): So sat there, and then I, one of my friends wanted to buy a lightsaber at Disney, like one of those props, and they were out. And of course, like, I don't think like, well, the comeback is stock, I think, well, I could make one, and that's my answer for everything.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01:37 - 00:01:48): Like, oh, I can make that bad, I could make this chair, I could make this whatever. So like, yeah, I can make one from scratch with no experience. And so I spent a year, and I made one completely from scratch.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01:48 - 00:01:49): Light saber?
SPEAKER_01 (00:01:49 - 00:02:01): Yeah, like one of the light, light up ones, you swing it around. That was a lot of fun. That's probably my most fun project. Because I had to learn electronics. I had to do 3D printing, I had to learn how to paint.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02:02 - 00:02:14): I had to learn how to paint in my garage, in the freezing weather, at 1 a.m. in December, and get that done before we got on the plane. So like, everything. I was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02:15 - 00:02:23): So, and that's similar to DevOps, because you kind of just attack problems, and you try to find solutions to these unknown spaces.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02:23 - 00:02:36): Yeah, I guess, I've been programming forever, right? Like, I learned when I was 12 or younger, and just kind of kept going, kept going. So most of what I'm learning is just kind of an extension on the last one.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02:36 - 00:02:52): So my program in this language, I'll program in a new one, or made this type of app, I'll make it slightly different. So DevOps is kind of interesting, because every time we had to do something, I really kind of had no idea how we were going to do it, and learn as you go.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02:52 - 00:03:10): But it's kind of weird in that I feel like every project I do in DevOps, I had the same exact feeling. You know, in making an app like, okay, this one's slightly different, but I'll get it. With DevOps, I feel like every project I get, I still have the exact same feeling of like, I don't actually know what this is or how to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:03:10 - 00:03:22): Even though I've done something similar, this one's totally new. So I don't know what it is about DevOps, but every project feels like it's completely new and unknown at the start.
SPEAKER_00 (00:03:22 - 00:03:30): And so you have that innate curiosity inside of you that you want to kind of tackle these unknown problems?
SPEAKER_01 (00:03:30 - 00:03:40): Yeah, I didn't realize this until talking to other people, because it's so natural. So like somebody mentioned something about cooking. It's like, yeah, okay, great. How?
SPEAKER_01 (00:03:40 - 00:03:54): Why? Like, why does the outside burn or poach or boil? Like, these computers, why does this one faster or slower? And how did these things work? So anytime I hear something, it's the first reaction, it's like, well, here I go now.
SPEAKER_01 (00:03:54 - 00:04:06): I'm going to figure out what's the difference between a coffee bean and a chauvin, and fermentation, and electronics, and whatever. Like, I can't see something without just kind of wanting to figure out, how it works and why.
SPEAKER_01 (00:04:06 - 00:04:17): Mm-hmm. And I'm like, okay, that sounds normal. This is just my normal state of being. Until I realize talking to my wife and other people, it's like, oh, man, haven't you ever thought about this?
SPEAKER_01 (00:04:17 - 00:04:30): And like, no, they don't think about all of these things. They don't have like, well, you know, I was having fun. And then I went on like a two-hour Wikipedia binge over the like, why is a rail system different in the US versus Europe?
SPEAKER_01 (00:04:30 - 00:04:40): Why do like different mountainous terrains, like anything? So I realized like, yeah, anything out there, if I see it, I just kind of need to figure it out, understand it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04:40 - 00:04:51): So you have a really innate sense of curiosity. Yeah. And you started programming when you were 12. Yeah. But I know you were making a joke earlier about some other stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (00:04:51 - 00:04:53): Yeah, geez, oh, you're like my path?
SPEAKER_00 (00:04:53 - 00:04:59): Yeah, you were just kind of joking that like, you weren't that good in high school, and you didn't really apply yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (00:04:59 - 00:05:10): No, because like this drive, this like, like wanting to understand things. So like, if I see something like, okay, I want to figure it out. And then I want to try it and see like, oh, that's how it works.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05:10 - 00:05:25): Mm-hmm. And stuff. But if it's not interesting, then of course, you know, I don't really want to do it. So like school, not that interesting. My dad would get so mad, he would, he would skip my report card bag and like getting D's.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05:26 - 00:05:36): It's like, you can't be getting D's. You're smart. I know you're not like unintelligent. So what's going on? So go through my backpack. There'd be quizzes I never handed in.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05:36 - 00:05:49): Homework, completely done. Just sitting in my backpack. I'm like, well, it wasn't very interesting. I didn't feel strong about turning in. So I just kind of didn't. And so that was always the struggle like, I could do school.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05:49 - 00:06:00): But it wasn't really exciting. So I didn't put the effort in. And I really languished. But anything that caught my interest, like, okay, great. And I just went 110%.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06:00 - 00:06:15): I've actually heard that like from some of the best programmers that I know, they commonly say they hate school. They don't see the point of like doing the assignments because it's so structured and so rigid and they're interested in that thing over there.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06:15 - 00:06:26): Yeah. And that's not on the coursework. And that's way more interesting. And I know a lot of people who have gone off and started their own company, they also think like that as well.
SPEAKER_01 (00:06:26 - 00:06:38): Yeah, I think, I think that's kind of how it happened. Like I learned computers young because I got bored. And I was like, well, what else can I learn? Reading the encyclopedias, that's kind of cool.
SPEAKER_01 (00:06:38 - 00:06:49): But that's kind of dry. And it's like, what is this old box that we have in the basement? So I want to learn it. But it wasn't kind of like, okay, let's sit down and learn the fundamentals. And like who invented the computer?
SPEAKER_01 (00:06:49 - 00:06:51): And let's let's practice writing ones and zeros and cursive.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06:51 - 00:06:56): It's so boring. It was binary for me. Yeah, I like to say that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:06:56 - 00:07:08): It's just like sideways. But like, that was the whole thing. Like, okay, I want to make stuff. Can this help me make things? And like, that's all I could do. Because it wasn't fast enough to play games.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07:09 - 00:07:22): I got games as gifts. And I'm like, thank you. And then like, well, it doesn't work with my computer. So I literally had to make anything I used on it. So that's what was interesting, right?
SPEAKER_01 (00:07:22 - 00:07:34): This is a way for me to make all that stuff in my head that I'm thinking. Great. But then you get to school and it's like, well, don't worry about making things, doing things, having any practical application. Just practice wrote stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (00:07:34 - 00:07:41): Remember, is this and re-agurgitate it onto a test, please? And it's important because I've decided that it's important and you need to learn it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07:41 - 00:07:56): Or maybe it's not important, but you still have to do it. So yeah, that was, I'd say I'm very driven by like, I want to make stuff. I want to create things. So it's learning what skills or tools will let me do that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07:56 - 00:07:57): So that's interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (00:07:57 - 00:08:08): So who got the computer for you that you had access to at 12? Because that's, you're probably similar in age to me. And it was, you know, an anomaly to have a computer in your house.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08:08 - 00:08:10): Very young. So how did you get a computer?
SPEAKER_01 (00:08:10 - 00:08:22): So I found this computer because I got bored. I played with everything in the toy box. I read all the books in the bookshelf. And so I started going through the random storage closet. And there was a computer there.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08:23 - 00:08:33): So I asked, like, what is this doing there? And my mom's like, oh, you know, my, your dad went to the store. And the guy convinced him that a computer would be amazing. He can do so much with it. He bought a top-of-line thing.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08:33 - 00:08:44): Then he got home and realized there's nothing he can do with it. He doesn't know what to do. So set there for years. So it wasn't even an old computer. It was an old computer that then sat in the closet for years.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08:45 - 00:08:55): And I was like, well, this is a new toy. I want to play with it. You know, I play with the saws. I play with whatever I can find in here. So computer, this looks really complicated. I want to play with it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08:55 - 00:09:07): And my dad said, he later admitted this was a tactic. He said, you can't play with that unless you read the instruction manual. Because the instruction manual was like spiral bound 700 pages long.
SPEAKER_01 (00:09:07 - 00:09:22): Oh my goodness. Because it was like how to connect it. And then the theory of DOS. And then how to program programs. Because it didn't come with any programs. So it was like, you know, this was his way of basically saying, no, don't touch my fancy thing that I'd spent money on.
SPEAKER_01 (00:09:22 - 00:09:32): So then I, I don't know how long it took me, but I went to him. So, okay, I read it. I read the manual. Can I play with the computer now? And he didn't believe me, but like I just, you know, he told me to.
SPEAKER_01 (00:09:32 - 00:09:43): So I read the 700 page book. I'm like, okay, I understand DOS. I understand basic. I understand programming fundamentals now. So I want to do this. And he, he let me set it up.
SPEAKER_01 (00:09:43 - 00:09:52): But I think he never intended on letting me do it. He just kind of felt guilty because he said I could. Assuming I would never read this book. So 11.
SPEAKER_00 (00:09:52 - 00:09:54): Okay. I was going to say how old were you when you read a 700 page book?
SPEAKER_01 (00:09:54 - 00:10:05): I think it was like 10 or 11 when that happened. So then he let me do it. And then I just like turned it on and it didn't do anything. So then I just started learning how to program.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10:07 - 00:10:07): And that was that.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10:08 - 00:10:20): So you have your innate curiosity. The computer that your dad told you not to play with, which made you want to do it even more. You didn't really like high school. Did you go on and get a bachelor's degree?
SPEAKER_01 (00:10:20 - 00:10:31): Yeah, I did. I went and got my bachelor's in computer science or computer engineering. So I figured I'm already in computers. I'm already doing it. You know, every night I just do it as a hobby.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10:31 - 00:10:44): So I guess I'll go into it in college because otherwise what would I do just sit around? So I did that and it was kind of the same thing. There were certain things that interested me and I did well.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10:44 - 00:10:58): And then there were things that seemed kind of rowed and kind of boring and I did poorly. I think one of the worst classes I had that I did, the worst in was engineering ethics, which was you had to go to class once a week and show up for half an hour.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10:58 - 00:10:59): And I got a D.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10:59 - 00:11:01): Because you didn't show up?
SPEAKER_01 (00:11:01 - 00:11:14): Because I didn't show up. Because it was so uninteresting. So I thought like, oh, it's like, I'm going to stand all night programming. But I don't want to show up once a week to talk about ethics. So little effort, but I couldn't like get myself to go do it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11:14 - 00:11:16): So that one I almost failed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:11:16 - 00:11:18): But computer ethics is important.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11:18 - 00:11:24): You would think so. You would think so. But you can't make stuff with ethics. So like, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (00:11:24 - 00:11:27): But you have to follow ethics to make some.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11:27 - 00:11:35): You should. You should follow ethics. But I would argue most people probably don't put the ethical into what they're making.
SPEAKER_00 (00:11:35 - 00:11:43): Well, I mean, let's hope people follow some level of moral code when they make code. True.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11:43 - 00:11:46): But yes, I do have that gap in my educational history.
SPEAKER_00 (00:11:46 - 00:11:48): So if I ever see anything.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11:48 - 00:12:00): Yes, if there's something of ethical, you know why. It's like, oh, he didn't go to that class in college. So I got my bachelor's and then I didn't have like a goal in mind. Like, okay, I like I'm interested in things. I want to make stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12:00 - 00:12:10): But you don't go to the job board and they say, okay, we need someone to make things. We don't know what. Just interesting things. Like if that was a job description, I would have done that like in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12:10 - 00:12:22): But it's like, okay, you can have an office job. You can have a startup job. But all that requires you to like kind of chase something down and put effort into it and do the boring parts. You're applying to jobs, interviews and stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12:23 - 00:12:34): So again, it's like, well, it kind of, that doesn't seem interesting. So I just didn't. And I just kind of bummed around for a year. My friend had a house in Jamestown, which is this like island right off a new port in Rhode Island.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12:35 - 00:12:46): And it was an old house and they had tons of rooms. So you're like, well, you can, you know, can stay in the spare room. So I was like, sure, like, I'm not working. I'm not going to school. I'm not really doing anything.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12:46 - 00:12:59): So yeah, I'll just hang out. And it wasn't a spare room. It was, there's a closet. And you have coats in the closet. And if you push the coats aside, there's a secret door. And if you open the secret door and crawl through, there's a little hidden room.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13:00 - 00:13:01): That's where I slept.
SPEAKER_00 (00:13:01 - 00:13:03): And it's like, so you slept in Narnia?
SPEAKER_01 (00:13:03 - 00:13:14): I slept in Narnia or in like Harry Potter's little like under the stairs. It was under the stairs. And it did that for like a year. And his family was great. They would have these like big philosophical discussions.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13:14 - 00:13:24): And they would say like, oh, we're going to go swim to that island over there miles away. Do you want to come? That's like, no, I can't swim that far. It's like, oh, we're going to go fix the roof. And we're going to like, cut down this giant tree. You want to do this?
SPEAKER_01 (00:13:24 - 00:13:38): And like, okay, yeah. But they would also ask me like, so what's your goal, life? Like, where are you going towards? How are you going to use this thing? What are you going to do to make the world better? And it's like, my answer is basically like, oh, I have no idea.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13:38 - 00:13:46): Because I don't have a goal. Like, if there's something cool, interesting, I'll do it. But, you know, what's my five-year plan? Who knows?
SPEAKER_00 (00:13:46 - 00:13:58): Most people don't think in terms of a five-year plan. We have to be taught. But, like, they have to. They ask us a lot in school or in like, workshops. What's your five-year plan?
SPEAKER_00 (00:13:58 - 00:14:09): Because most people are like, yeah, just going to kind of go in this direction. I mean, I've even had a guest point blank. They have five-year plan doesn't work for them. They don't want to think of their life in terms of five years.
SPEAKER_01 (00:14:10 - 00:14:23): I just recently started thinking about my future, meaning what am I going to be doing next year? Or two years from now? Even that's pretty new for me, I'd say. Because, like, it's kind of still that thing of, like, okay, I'm right here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:14:23 - 00:14:36): What around me needs doing? Or is an interesting problem? So, like, you know, DevOps, I was a full-sac engineer. I was doing app development. I never planned on getting into DevOps.
SPEAKER_01 (00:14:36 - 00:14:46): But it was kind of a thing where, like, here's all these engineers. Here's this thing that we desperately need. And nobody knows how to do it or is doing it. So, like, all right, well, I don't really care what I do.
SPEAKER_01 (00:14:46 - 00:14:58): So, here's a new cool thing to try. So, I went into it. But never had a plan of, like, you know, what's my long-term goal? Where is this bringing me? It was literally just, here's a cool thing I can do. Something new to learn, something to create.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14:59 - 00:15:04): And so, you've changed from that point of view to planning a year out?
SPEAKER_01 (00:15:04 - 00:15:19): I guess not even planning. Now, I actually asked myself, so what do I want to be doing any year or two? I would still say I don't have a plan. I simply just kind of keep asking myself, like, hmm, what I'm doing right now, like, do I want to do this any year?
SPEAKER_01 (00:15:20 - 00:15:27): And usually the answer is, like, kind of no. So, then I kind of keep asking myself, okay, so what is it I want to, what does it look like I want to be doing?
SPEAKER_00 (00:15:28 - 00:15:40): I don't put, like, time boxes around what I want to get done. I have goals and I'm like, well, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this and I don't know when I'm going to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15:40 - 00:15:47): But I'm working towards these things. And one of them recently was getting my motorcycle license.
(00:15:47 - 00:15:47): Nice.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15:47 - 00:16:01): And I'm like, so stoked, not have to go buy a motorcycle to go with the license, but that was, you know, something and another one was I just did an LLC and I'm officially a landlord now.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16:01 - 00:16:09): Cool. But those were always goals that I had and I didn't put a timed event around it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16:09 - 00:16:21): Oh, man. I think that's a problem for me. I have maybe a million goals, but so like, I started to list them down. Like the things I want to do, like, I want to make a bet.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16:21 - 00:16:33): Because I saw one. I thought I could do something like that. Carpentry? Yeah. We're working. I want to do more 3D printing. I want to get into like making circuit boards at home.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16:33 - 00:16:45): And then like, like, we're working now. So I have a million goals. But that's I kind of like anything like having a million goals is kind of similar to having no goals. Or at least it doesn't really give you a direction, right?
SPEAKER_01 (00:16:45 - 00:16:57): So like, if I just have like, you are, I have a million goals. Like, great. So which ones are you going to get to next? Or your head at a certain direction? Is that bringing you closer to any of the goals?
SPEAKER_01 (00:16:57 - 00:17:11): So like, well, I don't know because the goals are just like a huge like, massive things I could be doing. And maybe I'll just kind of pick one up and play with it for a while. But as far as like accomplishments, I think that's a lot harder.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17:11 - 00:17:23): So accomplishments. Yeah, that's like not many like that that lightsaber project I did. One of the biggest things about it was that not that it was so hard to do because it was.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17:23 - 00:17:34): Or that it required learning so many things. But it was that I actually completed something. Which is huge. Because I can remember going back like when I was little, I'd be like, oh, I'm going to learn this.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17:34 - 00:17:46): And learn like 70%. And like, here's another cool thing. And learn 70% until one day I realized I've never actually, I've been programming for years. I've never actually completed a program, a working program.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17:46 - 00:17:58): I have many like kind of sort of prototype. But never something that actually works completely end end. And I'd say that's a good analogy for like all these things.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17:58 - 00:18:08): Like tons of goals. But accomplishing like really fulfilling one of them. Like, yeah, it's very rare and all harder, I think.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18:08 - 00:18:20): I mean, that that is a normal human thing or a lot of people in computer science. I've talked with them and they say that kind of the same thing that, you know, the last 10 to 20% of something is the hardest.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18:20 - 00:18:32): So you like, you learn everything about Terraform except the last little bit. But the end. And then I just learned how to deploy on Azure like a couple months ago.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18:32 - 00:18:36): So, but I knew everything. Like nothing to deploy fire.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18:36 - 00:18:48): I've always wondered like, is it just like, yeah, everybody goes through that you have to eat your vegetables. You don't want to, well, some people do. For me, I don't. So like, you got to do the thing you need to do.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18:48 - 00:19:00): Not just the things that's fun. So I always wonder like, is this a normal every person thing, every person has to kind of like, the bits that they find enjoyable and like, but also do the extra part to finish it off.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19:00 - 00:19:14): That's like really annoying and hard, but needs to be done. One of my former mentors, like, wanted to have basically two teams. One that just go rush through and like, just attack the really hard, interesting fun stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19:14 - 00:19:28): And just do that. So they just know vegetables, all me just do the fun, interesting things. And then take off and have a second team that comes in and does all the like, harder, more boring parts.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19:28 - 00:19:30): And I thought, well, that sounds horrible.
SPEAKER_00 (00:19:30 - 00:19:38): Who would sign up for the team that does the horrible parts? Who would agree to be like, yes, all I want to do is the awful bits.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19:38 - 00:19:51): No one else wants to do. Well, I guess I wonder. And how much does it pay? Yeah, because like, I wouldn't be motivated by the pay, but I would definitely be motivated by like, you get to work on some really cool, interesting things.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19:51 - 00:20:04): Great. But if there's another path where it's like, well, it's pretty easy. And it's not hard like, and you're going to be like, praise and all that. But the things you do are kind of boring. It's like, oh, that sounds like torture.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20:04 - 00:20:20): So I, I always wonder, is there a counterpart? Like, just like, you know, I need to know how everything works. And other people don't. Are there people that actually don't want to constantly be forging unknown, risky, challenging things that they want to do, stuff that's more predictable?
SPEAKER_00 (00:20:20 - 00:20:32): I mean, I think there are people that don't like it. I think they're called green, they call them green pastures or green grass projects. It's called green field projects.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20:32 - 00:20:43): Green field, yeah. Which means that like, no one's ever done this before. Right. And I'm a green field person. Like, give me a project. No one's ever done before. I'm like, yes, please. Like, no one knows how to do this. Let me learn this.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20:43 - 00:20:54): But there are some people that that terrifies them. They're like, the book says we use Kaplan Meyer curves and that's all we use for like a data science reference. But I mean, the same thing could be said in DevOps in this situation.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20:54 - 00:20:56): We only do this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20:56 - 00:21:09): I guess I would, I would compare it to somebody who wants to like do the rough pioneering work and someone who likes refinement. Like, here's something that works. Let's keep refinement better until it's like a well oiled machine.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21:09 - 00:21:20): And I hope there are people out there because I would love it if, you know, like the whole jacksprat in his wife. Right. One would eat the part of the meal, one would eat the other part and they compliment to each other perfectly.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21:20 - 00:21:37): Like, how great would it be if like, OK, here are the parts that I love doing. And I just can't stand these other parts. And there's somebody that says, I'm the exact polar opposite. I feel like if those two people exist in the world, it's really just a matter of pairing them up in productive ways.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21:37 - 00:21:48): So that's what I always hope is possible. Because otherwise it's just, well, I'm just, I need my vegetables and I'm not. So I just need to work on that difficult part.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21:48 - 00:21:51): So I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (00:21:51 - 00:22:06): Well, is there any other bits of advice other than some people like green grass projects, some people like stable work, having a curious intuition probably leads to liking the green grass projects.
SPEAKER_01 (00:22:06 - 00:22:19): Yeah, I guess I always kind of say like I'm kind of in a year of discovery. Like I spend so much time saying, oh, this is why I work this way. Like I am this and this is not what everybody is, right?
SPEAKER_01 (00:22:19 - 00:22:33): Like the green grass thing, the adventurous or risk averse type thing. Or even curious versus not. And I think knowing so much more of how I am different from others is really helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (00:22:33 - 00:22:50): Which helps me understand why I do the things I do, but also why I like the things that I like. So like I keep telling you like in high school, I did really poorly. And now I know it's because I and I don't think it's a good thing, but I didn't put the effort in if it didn't seem interesting and challenging.
SPEAKER_01 (00:22:50 - 00:23:06): So it wasn't like hard work is harder like hard work is easy because the hard work is interesting. The easy stuff, go to class once a week and sit there quietly. Oh, I can't do it. So if I realize this earlier, I think I could have maybe dealt with it better.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23:06 - 00:23:22): It's like, okay, I know I don't like to do that. But if I plan it ahead and ask somebody to keep me accountable and like walk to class with somebody. Or if I like do my time sheets first so I don't always forget because I actually don't want to do them.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23:22 - 00:23:33): So if I had more strategies dealing with like, this is my brain and it works this way. So these are the tricks I need to like work around that. I think that really would have helped if I understood those things earlier.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23:33 - 00:23:43): Or if you went to like a Montessori style high school, would they let you self study? Yeah. Because then the tests would have been the interesting stuff you wanted to go study.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23:43 - 00:24:02): I don't know because I definitely would have thrived and I would have learned a lot. But I still think I would have performed poorly because at some point you have to go take the test or you have to like show up and you have to do those things. So I don't know if I would have thrived or if I would have been like really, really happy but completely still not having enough structure in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24:02 - 00:24:05): But I think I would have enjoyed that a lot more.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24:05 - 00:24:07): Any other pieces of advice?
SPEAKER_01 (00:24:07 - 00:24:14): Yeah, I don't know. I think talking about your motivations and understanding how you're different from others that really seems to be key for me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24:14 - 00:24:30): But understanding oneself is usually like to be quiet and reflective on who you are. Like a lot of people don't do that. Like how many people, like do you sit in the car and just not turn on music and just go through your thoughts and reflect on the day?
SPEAKER_01 (00:24:30 - 00:24:43): I mean, because I'm a night owl. So like I work, you know, I have social time. And then I'll stay up late and it's completely silent. There's nothing going on. There's no obligations. There's no homework. There's no work.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24:43 - 00:24:55): So I'm just sitting there. I would literally just sit there and stare at the mirror and just kind of think through things like either parts of the day or questions I had or, you know, random things that came up.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24:55 - 00:25:07): So I think I spent a lot of time introspecting. So I feel like I should have understood these things earlier because I spent so much time thinking about them. But I think it's not enough just to reflect on like, okay, so.
SPEAKER_01 (00:25:07 - 00:25:20): Yeah, I feel like I was quiet today. Well, that's interesting. Were you quieter or louder than others? And is there a reason why you were? And are you a certain personality that, you know, gains energy from quiet time?
SPEAKER_01 (00:25:20 - 00:25:33): Or you actually need socialization? So understand that level of depth. So it's not just the time spent thinking about it. It's actually, I think maybe having tools or experience. I feel like, oh, there are different types of people.
SPEAKER_01 (00:25:33 - 00:25:45): You actually kind of fall into this type of bucket and here are some implications. So yeah, I like introvert extrovert is like the famous one, understanding which you are, what that means.
SPEAKER_01 (00:25:45 - 00:25:58): And then realizing, oh, that's why I get stressed out. Even though I love being around people, I get stressed out when I don't have this other thing. And then also you have this tool to use of like, well, you build in the time you need around the things.
SPEAKER_01 (00:25:58 - 00:26:08): And then you can kind of do both better. So, yeah, I don't know, just. Maybe everybody should take psychology or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26:08 - 00:26:19): I mean, I found what helped me a lot was going to talk therapy and having someone ask the right questions. So I could answer them and then make the realizations for myself.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26:19 - 00:26:25): I always wish I had what they had in the sci-fi movies of those AI that were super smart, all knowing.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26:25 - 00:26:35): I have something to show you after we get to this. It's on my phone and it's an all-knowing AI. Oh, I can't wait. And it talks to you like star track level.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26:35 - 00:26:46): Yeah, that's what I always thought would be amazing. Like having this like really smart, intuitive intelligence in your ear, just like your personal conscious almost.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26:46 - 00:26:53): You can if you put in AirPods with your iPhone. It's called Pi, PI. Pi. It's Pi.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26:53 - 00:27:01): Or a set show, Mrs. Davis, with a similar kind of idea. Like an always on AI that everybody was connected to or her.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27:01 - 00:27:05): Her, yes. But then they fell in love with her and then they fell out of love with her.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27:05 - 00:27:16): And then they evolved into who knows what. But yeah, that like AI or a human therapist or even just like good friends to talk to or mentor.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27:16 - 00:27:28): Like I think a good mentor. Someone who has like the really neat blend of experience and insight and understanding of who you are and not just oh everybody should do. I think that would have made the biggest difference.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27:28 - 00:27:40): Yeah, so go find a mentor, but the right one. And you won't know who the right one is because you don't have the experience in the inside.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27:40 - 00:27:55): Hi, I'm Sarah from Sarah in tech. And I just want to give a shout out to if you want to learn more about Sarah in tech. Follow me on LinkedIn. And if you're not in just look for Sarah Herberger, that's H-E-R-B-E-R-G-E-R.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27:55 - 00:28:11): Or on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, we have Sarah in tech as the handle. If you're looking to hear the unedited version of all of these interviews, they're available on Apple, Amazon, and Spotify.
SPEAKER_00 (00:28:11 - 00:28:21): Just search for Sarah in tech.
